Kinh nghiệm tìm Postdoc ở Châu Âu

Discussion in 'Job/internship opportunities' started by VietPhD, Oct 12, 2007.

  1. VietPhD

    VietPhD Because of me, you'll never walk alone

    Hãy chia sẻ kinh nghiệm tìm kiếm thành công các vị trí postdoc tại Châu Âu! Rất nhiều anh chị em PhDs đã và đang làm việc tại các nước Châu Âu trong các vị trí postdoc, nghiên cứu, và giảng dạy. Cộng đồng VietPhD trân trọng mời quí anh chị đã hoàn thành PhD và thành công tìm kiếm vị trí postdoc tại Châu Âu chia sẻ kinh nghiệm với các thế hệ đi sau kinh nghiệm của mình. Nội dung không hạn chế về chuyên ngành cũng như loại công việc, bao gồm cả research, teaching, assistant professorship,... Xin chân thành cảm ơn. VietPhD
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2009
    vvnghi, robocon, nano and 1 other person like this.
  2. Nhịn

    Nhịn Thèm thuồng

    Phỏng vấn làm postdoc, thường hỏi gì

    Một bọn bên Thụy Sỹ có vẻ thích em các bác sang đó làm postdoc, chúng nó định cho em ít tiền sang bên đó gặp gỡ phỏng vấn. Vấn đề là em chả có time mà đi, nên hẹn chúng nó thứ 6 này làm phát phỏng vấn qua Skype. Em chả có kinh nghiệm đối phó với kiểu phỏng vấn này, nên hơi run, ngoài các câu hỏi về chuyên môn, thường các thể loại này còn hỏi han gì nữa không nhỉ, mong các bác chỉ giáo. Gấp lắm rồi, đội ơn các bác.
  3. segnilape

    segnilape Thèm thuồng

  4. VietPhD

    VietPhD Because of me, you'll never walk alone

    Pros and cons for an American taking a postdoc in Europe?

    Pros and cons for an American taking a postdoc in Europe?

    What are the pros and cons, professionally and personally, for an American taking an academic postdoc in Europe?

    I am currently a candidate for a postdoctoral position in Amsterdam. My interview is coming up soon, but due to external circumstances I may need to make a decision within a few days afterwards so I'm trying to figure out as much in advance as I can. I'm of course seeking detailed field-specific advice from my advisors and other members of my current department, but I'm interested in a few more general things.

    Professionally, since I plan to apply for faculty positions in a few years, I'm interested in the impact that this move might have on the perceptions of a faculty hiring committee. Is going to Europe going to hurt my chances in the U.S.? Will it open up more opportunities in Europe later on (and how hard is it to get faculty positions in Europe anyway)?

    Personally, what do I need to think about? One big question I have concerns my wife, who will be staying in the States for at least six months but who will eventually join me wherever I end up. How difficult would it be for her to get a work permit, etc.?

    I'm not looking for anyone to convince me one way or the other, since my decision will involve a lot of things I haven't discussed here. But, beyond these two specific issues, I'm interested in literally every possible angle on this, because there are surely a lot of things I haven't thought of. What kinds of things to I need to think about and plan for, what questions do I need to ask, etc.?


    Since you are posting anon and cannot clarify which academic field you are in, I will respond assuming you are in physical sciences. What I say may or may not apply elsewhere.

    In Europe, almost throughout, you will have little chance to get a faculty position afterwards. Simply put, there are already too many candidates and too few positions. These positions are usually state-funded and they tend to be filled by national rather than international candidates due to the high competition. Quality of scientist and personal connections not withstanding.

    You may be able to get research positions --not faculty-- on soft money, but again it will not be very easy, and promotion is not automatic every so-so years. You might want to inquire into that too. In this case, funding will come either from large EU projects --I mean 10-50 research institutes-- or from individual governments. Each government funds projects of limited scope and very well-defined social impact. You might also want to find out what research projects are typically funded.

    If you are interested in faculty positions in the US, one postdoc in Europe might not hurt. It could even prove beneficial if collaboration between US-EU is tight (in some fields it is, in some not so much). You will have to keep close contact and probably working collaboration with colleagues in the US, hopefully the ones you want to continue working with later or those in the Universities you will be applying. A lot of people (including myself) consider(ed) postdoc(s) as a hang-out (or *cough* an adventure) but now I am thinking it should be viewed as a spring-board that will land you at the place you want. Fast and clean. I am saying this not because I look down on adventures (I'd probably do it exactly the same way) but because you seem anxious about a good job afterwards.

    I would like to point out to you though, that scientific research is conducted very differently in the US from most European countries (with the exception of Britain, perhaps). This is not to say that there is not good science done there, it is to say that the method/approach/attitude are different. You may (or may not, of course) find yourself frustrated by lack of rhythm, slow pace, insufficient resources (computers, software, support staff), very target/funding-oriented research topics.

    About your wife: it depends where she wants to work, how soon etc. You need to talk to the American Embassy in Netherlands/elsewhere and to your contacts there, as they might be able to help her get a job or something.

    I happen to be looking into what is going on in some countries and in Brussels, so if your field is applied physics or math, and want to ask something specific, well, you know, email is in profile.
    posted by carmina at 4:33 PM on June 12, 2007

    Professionally, since I plan to apply for faculty positions in a few years, I'm interested in the impact that this move might have on the perceptions of a faculty hiring committee.

    There is no possible way to solidly answer this without knowing what field and subfield you work in, the relative standing of the institution in Amsterdam, your alternative possibilities, and so on. You need to talk to your advisors.

    Is going to Europe going to hurt my chances in the U.S.?

    It depends.

    It depends on who you work with and what your alternatives are. If you're faced with the choice between a 4-4 load as a VAP at Directional State University of City and a postdoc with the top minds in the field, duh. If you have a choice between a T/T job at an R1 and this postdoc, duh the other way. I assume your position is somewhere in the middle.

    I do political science. For me, I would be less interested in your file, even if you studied western Europe. If you were an Americanist or Asian-studies person or other not-Europe-related person doing a postdoc in Europe, I would think that you were a dingbat and/or that you just wanted to spend a year in Amsterdam getting high. Neither of these impresses.

    Unless this place is really top flight and its staff well-known on both sides of the pond already, you're probably going to have letters from people I don't see at conferences, from schools whose quality I can't immediately know, and who compare you to other people I don't know. On the one hand, I could spend a bunch of time becoming familiar with the institution and your letter-writers. Or, I could give a thumbs-up to the guy from Ohio State instead, whose letter-writers I see at every conference, and whose letter-writers can tell me that you're almost as good as my one-time colleague whom I admire.

    Ditto with publications. Publish something in a second-tier journal that I read or know of, and I can think that at least you're publishing in second-tier journals, which is fine in this day of 75%+ rejection rates. Publish something in a journal I don't know of, and that my R1 library might not take, and whose authors I don't recognize, and, well, why should I think it's anything other than the local version of the Journal of Last Resort? At least in the first round of eliminations, my due diligence stops at the edge of your file, so I'm not going to research the quality of your publication outlets myself.
    posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:56 PM on June 12, 2007

    If you have a choice between a T/T job at an R1 and this postdoc

    Blast and damnation. I meant to write:

    If you have a choice between a T/T job at an R1 and a postdoc at a subpar Dutch school who's already had their offer turned down nine times, duh the other way.
    posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:58 PM on June 12, 2007

    A couple of points:

    Most EU jobs have 'must be an EU citizen' strings attached to them. There are rare exceptions but don't hold your breath. The UK, for example is a little better, but I sometimes get the feeling that in continental Europe research positions are regarded by the government more as a kind of political jobs program than a chance to give your economy a boost, so questions of merit are less important than in the US.

    As far as getting a job in the US, one big hurdle is money. Unless you are a world beater, it will be easier to take the next person who has a roughly equal CV if you only have to fly them in from Chicago rather than the other side of the planet. I have had two friends with very good credentials (one was a Rhodes Scholar) who didn't get a single interview while in Europe. But both came back, did good, short second postdocs in the states, and found jobs. So that's another route.

    Good luck, whatever you decide.
    posted by overhauser at 5:49 PM on June 12, 2007

    If the people you'd be working with in Amsterdam are known to the people you work with in the US, I see no professional problem.

    Western Europe is more expensive to live in, as a rule, than pretty much any US city. Nonetheless, if the Amsterdam postdoc and a US postdoc seem to be equally reasonable choices, I'd go for the former.
    posted by lukemeister at 6:36 AM on June 13, 2007

    I'm in social sciences, and while I don't know the specifics of a postdoc in Europe per se, being hired back in Canada (where I'm from) would be a challenge, but not necessarily insurmountable. I would make a point of communicating in several ways to committee members when applying for a job that you are 'often in the US' because of previous ties or whatever. As noted above, you don't want to be discounted just because you'd have to fly to interview. If you were applying at my institution, you'd have to be 'worth bringing over'.

    Another question (which again is highly field and geography dependent) is why bother getting a postdoc at all? I'm seeing academics being hired without a postdoc frequently. Depending on the postdoc specifics, it might give you just what you need, or overburden you with busy work that you specifically don't need. Basically I'm with ROU_Xenophobe.
    posted by kch at 8:02 AM on June 13, 2007

    T/T, R1? Qu'est-ce que c'est?
    posted by lukemeister at 3:19 PM on June 13, 2007

    Another question (which again is highly field and geography dependent) is why bother getting a postdoc at all? I'm seeing academics being hired without a postdoc frequently.

    Yes, it is strongly field dependent. In my field (biomedicine) at least one is a prereq, in part because you are expected to use your postdoctoral project as preliminary data for your new, slightly different project. 2 postdocs isn't at all unusual.
    posted by overhauser at 6:23 PM on June 13, 2007

    T/T: Tenure track, as opposed to visiting or adjunct.

    R1: A "Research 1" school as the Carnegie Institute used to rate them. Basically, big research-oriented schools; flagship state schools and big privates (fnarr). They've changed their classification scheme slightly in the past few years, but people still use the old terms.
    posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:57 PM on June 13, 2007

    Another question (which again is highly field and geography dependent) is why bother getting a postdoc at all?

    Yeah, this is field dependent.

    You and I both do social sciences. We're cheap. We cost the school our salaries + benefits, and maybe a few thousand in research and travel money.

    Lab science people cost lots more. Their startup costs include setting up a lab and initial salaries for lab workers, IIRC. ISTR the dean of the college around here saying that new assistants in bio cost about $250K in startup, and this school is very far from Harvard. If a school is going to shell out $BIGNUM for a new prof, they're going to want some assurance that their new hire knows how to run a lab. Responsible postdoc positions can show this.
    posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:01 PM on June 13, 2007

    Pros and cons for an American taking a postdoc in Europe? | Ask Metafilter
  5. zozuc

    zozuc Thèm thuồng

    Nhờ tư vấn phỏng vấn xin việc

    Nhờ các ACE giúp em kinh nghiệm về chuyện này với nhé. Tuần tới em có Academic Video Conference Interview. Họ yêu cầu em làm cái Presentation với nội dung như sau:

    In a 15 minute presentation, please explain how you would approach the delivery of large first year common engineering courses in engineering practice and design. Common first year engineering courses at our university have civil, mechanical and electrical engineering students sitting in the same classes. You may wish to include in your presentation an explanation of how your scholarship of teaching would inform your delivery of such classes.

    Thật ra ở VN em đi dạy chuyên ngành nhưng chưa có bao giờ dạy lớp đông sinh viên lên đến 100 người cả. Vả lại hồi trước đến giờ có tiết thì cứ dạy thôi, dạy sinh viên Khoa nào thì riêng biệt Khoa đó, chứ kg lẫn lộn giữa Cơ Khí, Xây Dựng và Điện Tử như thế. Em tìm thông tin chuyện này trên mạng thì cũng thấy nhiều thông tin về "Large Classes Theory" lắm nhưng mà chung chung quá. Vì nó liên quan nhiều đến Engineering Education. Nếu ACE nào đã làm qua việc này rồi thì tư vấn giúp em với. Ngoài ra, em cũng mong ACE tư vấn thêm cho em về Video Conference Interview.

    Chân thành cám ơn mọi người nhiều. Chúc ACE cuối tuần vui vẻ và hạnh phúc.
  6. buddi

    buddi Thèm thuồng

    Tôi chưa bao giờ đi dạy nên không có kinh nghiệm để chia sẻ với bác về khía cạnh đó. Nhưng cách đây 2 tuần tôi có một online interview với một công ty ở Mỹ nên sẽ nói với bác những kinh nghiệm của tôi.

    Công ty yêu cầu tôi dùng Webex để interview. Cái hay của Webex là có thể share voice, video, slides, or whatever on your computer screen. Đầu tiên công ty sẽ định ngày giờ và host buổi meeting. Sau đó họ gửi cho tôi chi tiết (đường link, password, username) về buổi meeting. Tôi chỉ việc đăng nhập (kô cần cài soft gì hết, chuẩn bị sẵn phone và webcam) là đã tham gia vào buổi meeting, bao gồm có cả người ở công ty lẫn một ông Prof. ở trường đại học, ở các nơi khác nhau. Sau khi hỏi tôi một vài câu hỏi, họ chuyển host sang phía tôi và tôi có thể share toàn bộ computer screen của tôi với slides bật sẵn, thậm chí họ có thể xem cả video clip từ slides của tôi. Tôi cũng làm chừng 15-16 slides, tóm tắt ngắn gọn những gì tôi làm vừa qua, những hightlights và những hạn chế. Trong lúc trình bày thì tôi cố gắng nói chậm và rõ và make sure là họ hiểu tôi nói gì, tôi dùng chuột để làm pointer trong slides. Để cho chắc ăn thì trước đó một tuần họ hẹn tôi thử test để làm quen với các chức năng của Webex và tôi thấy nó cũng rất dễ dùng.

    Tôi không biết chỗ bạn apply họ dùng gì nhưng tôi nghĩ chắc nó cũng sẽ có nhưng chức năng như Webex.

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  7. viper1987

    viper1987 Thèm thuồng

    Anh chị ơi,
    Em hiện nay đang là Master năm cuối của Poli Milano, ngành điện tử, điểm của em trước khi làm thesis tầm khoảng 27/30 (em chưa kết thúc khóa học), và em nghĩ sau thesis khoảng 105/110;
    Ielts: 6.5
    LOR: của 1 thầy giáo của trường Milan.
    Paper: em chưa có paper nào cả.

    Em không biết hồ sơ của mình như vậy theo đánh giá của anh chị là ở mức nào vì điểm của em ở trường như vậy là mức 10% thôi, , em không biết với hồ sơ như thế này thì em nên xin học bổng tiến sĩ ở đâu.

    Em cảm ơn anh chị nhiều, mong nhận đc sự giúp đỡ của anh chị

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